Irrelevance to the new fen

[dalekboy]

This post is taken from a bunch of replies on a friend's journal, that it was decided we should stop hijacking and move the discussion somewhere else.

The problem is that a lot of fans want to get along, and many longer term fans don't like change, so the old fans don't change and the new fans try to fit in. The newer folks aren't encouraged to exptress their ideas, and fans have always been good at shouting down those they see as wrong.

I tend to think that when one is well-known and respected in the scene, they have a responsibilty to the newer folks to keep an open mind and to give them the chance to express themselves.

For instance, I have the newer people in Melbourne saying they don't see the point of having fan guests. I disagree with their opinion, but respect and understand that if they feel that way, then many more new folks will as well. So I either need to justify why we do it well enough that they can see my point-of-view, or rethink having fan guests in order to be relevant to the newer folks.

Though that said, I think the fan guest issue is a tiny one compared to how magnificently irrelevant our style of cons currently are to the new crop of fans.

New fans aren't coming to cons. They see them as over-priced, they don't see that they will get any value for money, and when they do come along, they have a hard time making friends because they're shy and because many of us are shy, we're more comfy talking to people we already know.

And then they hear us slagging off 'mundanes' and similarly showing fandom's intolerance for those not like themselves. So to new folks we come across as more exclusive than inclusive.

So discuss... and especially if you're one of the newer fans, please, please, please speak up and tell us what you'd like to see at cons, and what you think needs to be changed.

Comments

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

you seem to be wanting at least in part to attract an audience that doesn't understand them

Yes. You don't understand conventions until you have been to one. We wish to attract people who haven't been to conventions, and therefore don't understand them, but will like them when they do.

[smofbabe.livejournal.com]

We wish to attract people who haven't been to conventions, and therefore don't understand them, but will like them when they do.

As do all con runners. But obviously you don't think they'll like certain aspects of them because you're deliberately not mentioning those.

As I said to angriest, perhaps it makes more sense just not to have a Fan Guest of Honor if you think that your potential audience would be disturbed by one rather than not letting it be known that you're honoring the person except on the spot.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

But obviously you don't think they'll like certain aspects of them because you're deliberately not mentioning those.

No, I think they don't know what they are yet, so there is no point in using it in advertising. I think they'll like them once they know what they are -- but the best way for them to find out is by getting them to the convention.

I've been to Burning Man a couple of times. One of the most profound and memorable parts of that experience is the Sunday night Temple Burn. Trying to briefly explain why to people who have not attended would be nonsensical or confusing ("well, we all sit around in silence for a while, and then we go away. No, its not religious, even though its called a temple. Yeah, nothing much happens really, a thing gets burned but it's comparitively unspectacular."), but its at the heart of the whole experience. Is that I should use to sell outsiders on the event?

Something near the heart of the experience that requires significant explanation isn't necessarily what you use in advertising to outsiders with limited knowledge and a casual interest -- and this in no way detracts from the value of that aspect, or its importance to insiders.

Even something as big as a Swancon (let alone something as big as a worldcon) has enough going on that trying to communicate it all in a single poster or flyer (which your potential audience will scan in seconds) is impossible. You pick and choose those items you tell them about, and you concentrate on those items that will be immediately meaningful and attractive to your chosen audience (and fan guest is not immediately understood by non-fans).

if you think that your potential audience would be disturbed by one
Actually, I think the majority of the potential audience knows what a fan guest is, and is pretty happy about it. But we were talking specifically about advertising to a specific subset of the potential attendees, that being first time attendees that we wish to bring in to the convention purely by advertising/marketing. The map is not the territory, the flyer is not the convention.

[smofbabe.livejournal.com]

But we were talking specifically about advertising to a specific subset of the potential attendees, that being first time attendees that we wish to bring in to the convention purely by advertising/marketing.

I'm not sure how you could know that your publicity was only being seen by potential new attendees so my impression was that no advertising mentioned the Fan GoH in order not to confuse or alienate new people.

I've hijacked this thread long enough so I'll stop here. Apologies if I've annoyed or offended anyone.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how you could know that your publicity was only being seen by potential new attendees
No, we just know that repeat attendees are far more likely to have access to other forms of con marketing, such as PRs, our mailing list, etc, and those forms of marketing aimed at repeat attendees DID feature discussion of the Fan GOH.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

Apologies if I've annoyed or offended anyone.
No apology needed from me. Sometimes, someone is wrong on the internet and this time it was us (without admitting any actual wrongness, you understand).

[dalekboy.livejournal.com]

Stop apologising for things that need no apology. This has, to my mind, been a good discussion. You've heard a point of view you don't agree with, you've asked intelligent questions, listened patiently to replies, and given reasoned answers why you disagree.

Goodness, if only all folks were so open-minded and easy to deal with!