A Tale of Two Natcons

[dalekboy]

In the early 90's the media Natcon was going gangbusters (300-400+ attendees), the lit Natcon was dying with a slowly decreasing (around 200) and aging membership. With the success of a couple of joint media/lit Natcons, it was suggested that Australia's population was so small the two cons should be joined.

It would mean a bigger overall Natcon with a larger budget. Everyone would win. The media fans had no reason to do this. Their Natcon was doing fine. The only reason they did it was out of a sense of community. It would be good for fandom as a whole to have a single, bigger Natcon.

Both Natcons had their own awards. The ASFMAs (Australian Science Fiction Media Awards) and the Ditmars. Having both sets of awards would be huge and unwieldy. The only reason we still have the Ditmars is because the media fans not only agreed to the joining of both Natcons, but agreed to continue the Ditmars and discontinue their own award since a lot of older fans were concerned about the loss of the Ditmars, and their history, if a new award were started.

The only real requirement media fandom had was that the Ditmars have categories changed or added so that the media side was adequately covered, and the new Natcon have a program that fairly represented both media and lit fandom interests.

In a short time, with no separate Media Natcon to compete against, the Natcon program became heavily lit based.

With no guest or programs that addressed their passions, the fan clubs and groups more or less stopped attending the Natcon, and with their own yearly Natcon and awards gone, there was nothing to hold media fandom together through other issues.

We stopped having regular cons and Natcons in Victoria as we approached the worldcon, and while Perth picked up the slack with regards to the Natcon, it didn't advertise in the east terribly well. With no experience of a Swancon, which does tend towards a more balanced program, the east coast media fans expected more of the same they had already been given - Natcons with nothing for them. Why spend all the money getting to Perth just to be disappointed again?

Having already been hurt by the Natcon, to then have someone loosely associated with the then upcoming WorldCon loudly state at a major pre-Aussiecon 3 event, "We don't need the media fans!" didn't help things. For a group than had already been well screwed, a group that had been far more active in con-running over the previous decade than the majority of the fans working on A3, this was telling them that they, and their expertise, really weren't welcome.

The lack of action on the part of the WorldCon committee to rectify the damage didn't help. Having the creator of Babylon 5 as a guest was all well and good, but other than that, the only answer received to the question, "Why should we attend?" was "Because it's the WorldCon." The attitude was that if you didn't want to come to the WorldCon, there was something wrong with you.

On top of all this, fan politics within and between several clubs further damaged things within the media scene.

The big media expo-style cons had tried to get a foothold in Australia a few times, but previously couldn't compete with the fan-run media cons. Why go to a con where you couldn't really talk to or interact with the guest?

The best of the fan-run media cons was Multiverse, which not only ran good cons (and tried with variable success to also cater to lit fandom) but raised thousands and thousands of dollars for charity into the bargain. That was one of the interesting things about Media fandom - the profits of most Media cons were donated to charity. Again, there's that attitude of trying to help and be a part of the wider community - the same attitude that lost them their own Natcon.

But eventually the folks behind Multiverse decided it was time to finish up. Once they did, in came the expos to fill the vacuum.

Media fandom in Victoria had lost their last interesting media cons, while media fandom in general had lost its awards, its Natcon, and its history. Even the Doomsday Book, a book filled with humourous advice, info, and illustrations from previous Media Natcon committees to future ones, was lost. I think it was later recovered, but couldn't swear to it.

Certainly for a time before the Natcons joined, the two media fandom centres of Australia were Melbourne and Brisbane. But it would be up to someone from Brisbane to tell what effects, if any, losing the Media Natcon had on Queensland fandom.

With this history in mind, take the time to find and go through the last decade of Natcon program books, and decide for yourself if you think Australian media fandom has been well-served by their selflessness.

One of the architects of the change, in light of all that has happened, has commented to me on several occasions over the last ten-plus years, that he thinks they killed the wrong Natcon.

Comments

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

sf.org.au wiki already has bits of the Red Book (the compendium of Swancon running lore), and is supposed to be a place for Aussie fandom history, perhaps we could at least scan the Doomsday book and add it there?

Anyway, what to do with it shall be a good subject for discussion at Conjecture.

[dalekboy.livejournal.com]

Glad to be of help :)

And if I'd seen this reply before I saw your other one, I may have ranted at you less. Sorry about that.

[dalekboy.livejournal.com]

Regardless of anything else, I think it should be scanned.

Re: More Ranty History!

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

I think one issue here is that, from a Natcon/lit perspective, it seemed that while Melbourne had plenty of fannish activity, including media activity and the MSFC, the lit natcon seemed to be something that was dying in Melbourne post-Constantinople (Basicon 2 seemed like evidence that it wasn't dead yet, but wasn't very healthy). And general Perth fandom, for whatever reason, saw the lit Natcon as a much bigger deal than the media Natcon -- and certainly saw the institution of the Natcon as something that seemed perfectly healthy every time it visited Perth. So Melbourne was lacking in the sort of cons that a lot of Swancon people were looking for, even if there was lots going on we tended not to see (and instead see only an ailing natcon). Since then, there have been both natcons and Continuum (which Perth folk are much more aware of due to both your involvement (and Sue Anns, etc) and its deliberately Swancon-like attitude). So there has certainly been a resurgence in the sort of cons that get noticed in Perth.

(FWIW, the 90s was also an absolute golden age for eastern states gaming conventions, which also generally didn't get much noticed from Perth, because there simply wasn't a scene here to introduce people to gaming cons)

I certainly heard the argument that Perth would be wiped out by a Worldcon a lot post-A3, at which time Perth clearly did have a lot of con-running talent. There were a lot of people around who had given up running Swancons, but could be dragged back into con-running for for a worldcon, plus a very large and enthusiastic next generation of con-runners. At that time, it was always justified by referring back to Melbourne. Perhaps the argument was justified the first time it came around, but not the second - but I've certainly always seen it justified, rightly or wrongly, by reference to A2 and A3, rather than being an invention of Perth fandom as kremmen suggests.

It is also worth noting that A3 seemed to drag new people into fandom, but most of the resulting burst of activity was in small press/writing/publishing. A3 might have had a bit of a revitalising effect on fandom generally, it just might not have manifested particularly in con-running. I don't have any particular numbers etc to argue, but it certainly seems that there was a lot of small press activity both just before and after A3, and several new people dragged into that scene by it. I just think its worth mentioning, there is probably a good discussion to be had about what this says about the A3 committees success or failure -- perhaps these people might have been organising cons sooner had the A3 committee been more welcoming to involvement from broader fandom?

[dr-jekyl.livejournal.com]

If people are serious about conserving and saving it, why not look at donating ir or temporarily loaning it to Murdoch? Admittedly, it wouldn't be on the right side of the country, but it would probably find a good home and might get some conservation work done on it.

[dalekboy.livejournal.com]

Actually, we have been in the position, twice.

I always said, "Never ever a Continuum Natcon," and in fact have things set up in such a way that while not impossible, it's not easy. You'd basically need to convince two committees to back you up.

I'm only going to talk about the one time it nearly happened.

We very nearly bidded against a Natcon at the last minute. I actually got phoned up by the Chair of a Continuum and told, "Talk me out of bidding for the Natcon."

I asked what had happened, and it seemed that the Natcon bid was pushing itself as being run by people with 'lots of recent experience in running conventions' and allowing people to draw their own conclusions.

As it wasn't a Perth or Canberra bid, naturally people thought of Continuum. Nothing was said by the runners to clarify which group was running. The first we knew was people approaching the then current Continuum Chair and saying, "Continuum's bidding for the Natcon! That's great!"

On top of this, the Chair had previously been approached by the bid organiser and asked if we minded if they ran a 'small' event around the time we normally ran our cons. We said no problem, go for it. At no time was the Natcon bid mentioned.

This is the same person who came up to me personally and congratulated me on nailing that middle of the year slot as the 'Continuum slot.' She said it was good because people knew it was on around that time and wouldn't go up against it. Then she snuck in and grabbed it!

Other cons were asking us when we were running, they didn't want to be up against us. In one case, we didn't have a date set, so we told the con, "You tell us the dates you want to run, and we'll stay as far away from them as we can." We didn't see it was fair to make them wait on us while we ummed and ahhed.

We treat fandom as a community, not a power game.

Of course history has been rewritten, so I've since heard how she told us all about her plans for a Natcon and we said it was fine. Apparently, we're the ones rewriting history.

Why would we rewrite history in such a way as to make ourselves look bad? It doesn't make sense.

Thing is, if instead of sneaking around, she'd just asked us outright, it would have been fine. Oh we would have grumbled a bit, but we would have said yes, take the weekend.

The Continuum Chair and I talked about it at length. Eventually we decided not to go for it. But we were very, very unhappy about the game-playing.

Given where we were at at the time, do you think another Natcon would have got the bid over what would have been a Continuum Natcon if we had actively gone for it? I don't.

And needless to say, that ended up being the Natcon where the chair turned up to Swancon, and totally failed to spruik her Natcon at the closing. Nor was there any hint that she had arranged for anyone else to do it.

So I stood up and did it at the very last second because I felt it had to be done, because people would want to know about it. I didn't have all the info, so then you saved things when you chimed in with the guest list. And people were impressed. And wanted to go.

Part of me still says I should have let the Natcon go unmentioned at Swancon. If she didn't care about it, why should I? But I would have regretted it if I hadn't spruiked it, because all those people who then decided to go would have missed out.

[emma-in-oz.livejournal.com]

I wasn't there but I've heard of it and am still angry. Your rescuing of Swancon has not been forgotten by me.

[dalekboy.livejournal.com]

But not to see.

I always get all confused and blushy when people say things like that to me :)

[dr-jekyl.livejournal.com]

As one of those half-interested (but not really long running) con-goers, I have to say that if it weren't for the cheap day, I wouldn't have gone at all. It was my excuse to come, rather than to stay away, because there was very litle in the convention programming that interested me, and I had to work on one of the days of the con. I suspect there are quite a few others out there like me.

The real problem with the con pricing this year was that it was cheaper, providing you didn't want to go to the last half-day, to buy membership on a daily basis than it was to buy a full membership at the door. Going for the whole con should entail a discount, even buying tickets at the door.

[rosiemitchell.livejournal.com]

May I draw your attention to the current and ever growing make up of the Aussiecon 4 Concomm? The majority of senior positions now active are filled by people who come from media fandom, including the Co-Chair who is an ex President of Austrek and ex Captain's Log editor.

People are identified and recruited on their expertise and reputation; they accept the position depending on many criteria, most often whether or not they are able to commit fully to the tasks necessary to fulfil their jobs, both on the worldcon and in real life.

More and more positions will be filled over the coming months and many people will be approached. These people will be from many aspects of fandom and from many geographic regions.

I am confident that the mistakes made in previous years will not occur in 2010. Thank you for raising this issue again, I am sure the debate will be productive.

Rose Mitchell
Co-Chair
Aussiecon 4

[dalekboy.livejournal.com]

And I hope you've noticed that this all started as a piece about Natcons, and the fall of Melbourne media fandom, of which A3 was only a tiny part. Though I'll always wonder if things may have turned out different if Dave McDonnell hadn't had health issues and had been able to stay on as programmer for Aussiecon 3.

Sue Ann is one of Australia's most talented programmers. The only reason I'm not saying she's THE most talented programmer in Australia is because I don't know them all. With her at the helm of Aussiecon 4's program, it will doubtless be a multi-layered event that caters to a variety of tastes.

We've got our memberships!

Re: Aussiecons...

[mireille21.livejournal.com]

Yes, I did think of Rob as I was making my comment. And he *was* lovely :)

[mireille21.livejournal.com]

"Quite agree that it's easily done if you're not in the loop, but doesn't that hit to the core of the issue? The people running a worldcon should have been "in the loop", or at the very least asked someone who was."
This is something that i have raised many times actually, the fact that those doing a lot of the organising haven't even been down to the MSFC in years (or ever) where a lot of fandom actually still hangs out. how can they know what the people want if they won't hang out with the people. Coupled with people essentially being told to go away when they do stick their heads up. I have found it very frustrating. i don't think it's an unsolveable problem, but yes, the Worldcon committee do need to go out and talk with some other people a bit more than they have I believe.

[kremmen.livejournal.com]

You've touched on a point which transcends the whole media/lit issue altogether.

Some of those who were involved in running A3 are simply uninvolved in fandom in Australia. I don't understand why such people would wish to run worldcons. They are never seen at the MSFC and never seen at a Swancon or Continuum or Convergence or Conflux (... except maybe for a few hours to push a worldcon bid) and are thus unknown to 99% of fandom.

The main reason I'd like to see a Worldcon in Perth is that those who have shown interest in giving it a shot are members of fandom. By which, I mean involved in Australian fandom, not those who go to Worldcon once a year and schmooze some smofs and seldom have any input to local fandom.

[rosiemitchell.livejournal.com]

Actually, A, already doing that. Aussiecon 4 are actively seeking people with experience from the clubs, and not only those here in Melbourne. Many have taken the opportunity to be involved and help shape the 2010 worldcon.

Rose Mitchell
Aussiecon 4 Co-Chair

[mireille21.livejournal.com]

Good to hear. Somfbabe's reply read as though this was not the case and that the current committee was assuming that 'media fans' (to use a blanket term) would approach them if they wanted involvment, which is not the case given the past history (which has obviously been discussed here.)

[mireille21.livejournal.com]

Is there not the possibility to still have this rectified? Sounds like many of the current WASSF committee would be more than willing to do so.

[dalekboy.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why such people would wish to run worldcons.

Ego. It's what I call "Event Fandom." If they're going to run a con, it's going to be an 'important' one. A good chunk of those types of folks aren't interested in anything else, and rarely go to other things. And if they do go to them, it's rarely social. It's usually to fly the flag of their event, or to headhunt people.

To them, smaller cons are unimportant. I know of one person who gestured to the successful smaller con around them to their friend, and said loudly, "None of this matters, you're with World Fantasy!" Doesn't matter they were drunk, to me it showed their real attitude to standard conventions.

Personally, I see the smaller cons as the important ones, because they bring new people in and keep things alive between the event cons.

I'm fully behind a Perth bid.

[angriest.livejournal.com]

My main problem with running a Perth Worldcon is that I really don't want to personally commit to organising something for close to a decade from the first meeting to the actual event.

[angriest.livejournal.com]

See? Things like spontaneously leaping up and spruiking that con? That's why we gave you that pretty kaleidoscope thing.

[angriest.livejournal.com]

There absolutely is. It involves someone adding it to the agenda for the WASFF AGM next Swancon, and making sure enough supportive people go along to speak in its defence and vote in favour of a motion.

[mireille21.livejournal.com]

I think this post has been full of bits of conversations that had to be had. It's great to see fans from all arenas talking to each other too. Some people will never 'forgive and forget', but overall if the problems can be identified and then tackled productively (and not dismissed too easily), then it can be a win for all, and not a continuing case of Chinese Whispers for another decade.

As an aside, one of my issues with A3 was supposedly being the Queensland rep, but I had to hound people for up to date information and was *not* kept in the loop by the committee about what was happening, and in the end my name did not appear in the co book or anywhere. I was a bit peeved. And I'm sure half the committee didn't even know who i was either! Let alone that I was apparently working with them.

[mireille21.livejournal.com]

PS. I'm sure half of them still don't know that I came up with the extra supply of little gold kangaroo pins, as I had someone in Glasgow telling me of their significance. Ahem.

[mireille21.livejournal.com]

What is stopping things from being fixed now?

[angriest.livejournal.com]

Swancon 2001 was pretty well-served media-wise though - we had the whole Stanley Kubrick retrospective stream for one thing.