Kids @ Cons

[dalekboy]

Way back in '91, (or was it '92?) I ran a convention and very deliberately insisted on a panel about being a parent and staying active in fandom. It had two two fan mums on it. Back at that point, I think I knew three people with kids that were still active fans.

There were quite a few more who had basically dropped out for various reasons - time/money constraints, had moved on to other interests, lost interest in fandom in the face of the new little person who needed them, just felt they couldn't do both, etc.

That was why I wanted this panel, because there were people dropping out simply because they didn't think they could do both, be a parent and an active fan. I wanted people to be able to hear from some parents who were still going to cons and clubs, and to be able to pick up some tips, so they could do the same if they wanted to.

What amazed me was the sheer lack of attendance. Especially by women who were talking about having children themselves. Because, to me, it wasn't a subject that was just about keeping yourself in fandom, it was about how to maintain the aspects of your life that you wanted to hang on to in the face of the world altering addition of another person in your life.

I thought this way a decade and a half before I even had kids, because I knew that many people will end up looking after a child at some point. And it'd be a shame to lose them simply because they didn't think they could do the stuff that they enjoyed, and still care for their kid. No-one wins in that scenario.

There are people who say that kids shouldn't be allowed at cons, and I can honestly see their point. Kids can be disruptive, excitable, loud, and annoying. They can run around, bump into people, and wave things about with no regard for the people nearby who might be hit. They can be a huge imposition to those around them who genuinely shouldn't have to put up with it. People have paid to enjoy the convention, they shouldn't have that enjoyment lessened by some out of control child.

Of course there are more than a few adult fans the above paragraph applies to as well. I can think of instances where I have seen supposedly mature adults doing all these things. In some cases at con after con after con.

Shall we stop them coming to cons too? 'Cause I'm sure I can easily list a few names that I'd rather not attend cons any more. People who always fucking yell stuff out from the audience whether it's warranted or not, especially the ones who think they're funny. Who drink too much and then proceed to be completely obnoxious fucking tools for the rest of the night. Panelists that never seem to prepare, or who always seem to talk over the top of their fellow panelists. Con-runners that never try to do a good job, but always aim for average, and con-runners that will step on whomever they please because running cons is not about community but power.

These people seriously lessen my con experience. They lessen it substantially more than any child ever has. (Except perhaps my own, but he basically kept us trapped in our room most of the time, and was pretty delightful to everyone else, so I'm prepared to put up with him - for now!)

But, you know, at the end of the day, if a child is acting up in any way, the first person who is aware of it is usually the parent. In fact, they will often be cringing. They will usually try to sort the situation out in fairly short order, and if they can't, they will take the child and leave. And as annoyed as you may be by the two minutes of a kid annoying you, how about a bit of thought for the poor parent who has to leave the item they wanted to see and continue dealing with the unruly child.

Oh there are some selfish parents. People who will just let their kid do what it wants, won't keep an eye on it, or worse, will expect other people to do so without being asked. But you know, it's not hard to go up to them and ask them to do something about their disruptive child. And if you don't want to be the bad guy, it's usually not hard to find a committee member who can do it for you.

I have Chaired four conventions and been on several committees, but I've never had a situation where I had to ask a parent to take their child and leave. I have, however, had occasion to chastise and threaten with expulsion a couple of adults, and I've had to ask one professional author to leave a con for breaking convention rules that he was well aware of beforehand.

Maybe kids don't belong at cons, but I prefer their behaviour to some of the adults who attend, because at least the children have a legitimate excuse to behave immaturely.

Comments

[crankynick.livejournal.com]

I just want to apologise to Danny for bringing this to his LJ - and to note that I say this in public, under my own name. No anonymous attacks, and I'm happy to respond in public or private.

Let me start, Lee, by saying that I don't know what was said to or about your kids - if what you say is true, that was wrong.

But...

If you want to know why you've copped shit, you need to look to your own behaviour.

We've never met, never been introduced, never shaken hands, never had a chat, as far as I can recall.

I don't hate you - a number of people whose opinion I trust that tell me that in private you're a genuinely decent, funny, honest guy. I take their word for it, and I wish I'd seen that side of you, because that sounds like someone I'd like to know.

But in public you're a douche.

The last time I saw you at SwanCon you embarrassed yourself, and your fellow panelists and a guest of the con, by bagging out a former publisher, and not letting anyone else on the panel get a word in edgewise. That wasn't your only poor behaviour at that con, as I'm sure you've been told. And over the years you've put on a litany of similar performances.

Your engagement with the SwanCon community now seems to be confined to turning up at conversations like these and telling us that you're quitting fandom, seemingly in the hope that people will beg you to stay.

Does that help?

Contribute something that isn't arrogance and entitlement, and maybe people will care.

And lest you think this is another aspect of the conspiracy to deny you your rightful place in the community, think about this:

I say this as a man who has been disliked within the SwanCon community over the years, and who has heard most of what you have - and possibly worse. Ask around, there are plenty of people with plenty to say.

But that's down to my behaviour, not that of Perth fandom. I've been quite a lot of an arsehole over the years - in some cases I've made my apologies, in some cases I haven't. But I don't resile from who I am and what I've done, and I don't make excuses or invent conspiracy theories.

And I know I have plenty of friends, who have defended me in public and private - as have yours.

But the way I'm regarded is a consequence of my behaviour, not because Perth fandom is an unwelcoming place, and not because there's some kind of cabal out to get me.

You want to know why you get critiicised?

Look to your own behaviour.

[dalekboy.livejournal.com]

Very quick reply because I'm in the middle of fifteen things - no need to apologise, I'm fine with it. That said, I really appreciate your consideration in feeling it was necessary.