This post is taken from a bunch of replies on a friend's journal, that it was decided we should stop hijacking and move the discussion somewhere else.

The problem is that a lot of fans want to get along, and many longer term fans don't like change, so the old fans don't change and the new fans try to fit in. The newer folks aren't encouraged to exptress their ideas, and fans have always been good at shouting down those they see as wrong.

I tend to think that when one is well-known and respected in the scene, they have a responsibilty to the newer folks to keep an open mind and to give them the chance to express themselves.

For instance, I have the newer people in Melbourne saying they don't see the point of having fan guests. I disagree with their opinion, but respect and understand that if they feel that way, then many more new folks will as well. So I either need to justify why we do it well enough that they can see my point-of-view, or rethink having fan guests in order to be relevant to the newer folks.

Though that said, I think the fan guest issue is a tiny one compared to how magnificently irrelevant our style of cons currently are to the new crop of fans.

New fans aren't coming to cons. They see them as over-priced, they don't see that they will get any value for money, and when they do come along, they have a hard time making friends because they're shy and because many of us are shy, we're more comfy talking to people we already know.

And then they hear us slagging off 'mundanes' and similarly showing fandom's intolerance for those not like themselves. So to new folks we come across as more exclusive than inclusive.

So discuss... and especially if you're one of the newer fans, please, please, please speak up and tell us what you'd like to see at cons, and what you think needs to be changed.

From: [identity profile] angriest.livejournal.com


Although most of this is completely off topic if we assume Science Fiction Conventions are meant to be about Science Fiction ;-)

I think if we made science fiction conventions entirely about science fiction, we would solve 90% of the problems people have coming to them for the first time.

From: [identity profile] robinpen.livejournal.com


I totally agree with you. I think fandom is an integral part of the con experience but it should be informal and underlying. Though cons are an amateur event they should be structured and operate as professional genre conventions. I always felt the days should be serious and the evening be entertainments. Fandom community should rejoice in the comrade but anyone should be able to buy a full or day membership and encounter a smooth entertaining and educational con without needing to interact with a seemingly "private" social group. Having said that, if they feel enticed to enter the "fandom" then it should be welcoming.

From: [identity profile] angriest.livejournal.com


Yes, all true, and it is very hard to steer the truck in that direction when the hardcore all want the event exactly the way *they* want it, and don't have an interest in attracting members who aren't exactly like them.

(That reads as very negative, but it's also very true.)

From: [identity profile] robinpen.livejournal.com


Yes, it's a very negative thing to say, but it's a positive action to say it.

From: [identity profile] rwrylsin.livejournal.com


Can't argue with that. I went to my first SF con looking for SF - found what appeared to be plenty of it, but was left underwhelmed with the distinct impression that the panellists didn't really want to be there and were mostly more interested in just having a captive audience. Probably wouldn't have gone back if left to my own devices.

So I don't think it's enough to just be generally about SF, it needs to well presented. Not to malign panels entirely, there are good ones, but as newcomer especially it's very off-putting when faced with;

"Flying Cars!"
"Won't work." *stomp*
"But what if we did it anyway!"
We discussed that in the bar 3 cons ago. Bored now. Let's tell amusing driving anecdotes instead.

It would probably be fair to say that as an experienced fan, I've retreated to the non-SF fringe largely because that's where the quality is most reliably found. It's only there because someone with a passion volunteered, they know their stuff, have opinions and generally seem delighted to be able to share something with you.

No idea what the solution is without lots more keen volunteers, particularly since I have no idea how programmes are put together.
A few panels at Orbital last weekend benefited from having started life as an online argument, and then the participants were told by the con committee that this was now a programme item and they were on it.

From: [identity profile] dalekboy.livejournal.com


"I went to my first SF con looking for SF" sums things up nicely in some ways. I hate panels where people say the equivalent of "this has been talked about" because you know, not everyone has heard it.

Every now and then I hear people saying "Oh we've already done that panel three years ago," and that's fine, they might be bored with it, but there are new people who have come along since then.

I think a few more structured panels is a good thing - either having moderators, or a team of people you know work well together. There are people I would never appear on a serious panel with either because they will talk over the top of me because I'm too polite to cut in, or they will spend their time telling 'amusing' anecdotes, that are only vaguely related to the panel.
.

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