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This piece is not about any one person specifically, it's about the way people are demonised in general.I want you to think about the worst thing you've ever done. Something, no matter how long ago you did it, that you're still ashamed of. Don't shy away from it, think hard about the nastiest, shittiest, lowest thing you've ever done to someone.
Now, I want you to imagine people in general, and the internet as a vague group, deciding that's the person you really are.
Think about how they would react, how they would treat you, attack you, the things they would write about you - for a single act. It doesn't matter if it was a mistake, deliberate, or if there were extenuating circumstances - they don't care. There's little to no forgiveness out there, almost every time folks talk about you, it will be in relation to whatever it was you did.
How would that make you feel, as the weeks became months and years, and people still brought it up? How would you feel about the fact that no matter what else you did, there would always be someone there ready to bring up that single bad decision and start the whole thing up again? That every other positive act in your entire life would be deemed unimportant or irrelevant compared to this single event.
I'm not saying there should be universal forgiveness. Some people repeatedly do horrid things to others. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a price to pay for a single error, sometimes we have to make amends. But if the only issue you can find with a person is one really bad thing they've done, then doesn't that suggest there may be more to them than that one act?
Remember this the next time the crowd starts baying for someone's blood over a single mistake, especially if you're part of that crowd. Other people are as complex and have as many layers as you do.
You, and I, are not just the worst thing we ever did.
And neither is anyone else.
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I actually think there can be redemption but not necessarily in the way perhaps you do.
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I just wanted to quote that part again. Not having a shot at you, just being a bit clearer here. I was molested for a period of around 6 months by a family friend when I was a child. So I'm the person that until I read Mindhunter was in favour of mandatory castration in all proven cases of rape. What I learned after reading that book was that rape is usually about anger, not sex, and if you cut a guy's balls off you have a very angry man. And a guy doesn't need a penis to rape.
Going back to my quote - I don't think Johns has made amends or paid a price for his error. Lock the fucker up.
One of the things that sickens me about the Matthew Johns case is that right from the word go, the media referred to it as 'group sex.' Group sex to me is a consensual act, something agreed upon in advance. The media was already letting this guy off the hook.
The girl agreed to have sex with Johns, she didn't agree to have sex with all his mates. They just turned up, and so she's in a situation where she's feeling pressured by big burly footballers to do stuff. Does anyone really think she felt like she could safely say no? I have no problem believing that she went along out of fear of what might happen if she didn't.
And channel 7 have rewarded him! What message does that send, to both men and women?
As to the WA case, I hadn't seen the 'she's not innocent' posts. Ewww! Seriously. I have no idea what they're referring to, but at the time it happened she said no. He went ahead anyway.
I think the guy has problems, and that deserves some compassion, and treating him badly will not solve anything or make the world a better place.
However, his victim is deserving of a lot more compassion and consideration. All she did was happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time - the time and place where he chose to do the wrong thing in a moment of selfish weakness.
You and I have had many discussions over the years, and you know my take on crime tends to break down to - Did the person understand what they were doing was wrong? If the answer is yes, and there's no huge extenuating circumstances (i.e. stealing food because they're starving, murder that's a clear-cut case of self-defence, and so on), then throw the book at them.
She said no, so he knew what he was doing was wrong.
As far as I'm concerned, he's welcome back at Swancon when the victim has forgiven him, and not before. He already got off lightly because the police weren't involved.
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For me, redemption starts with admission of guilt, and genuine sorrow. You have to understand the impact your actions have had and own that.
There are a lot of people who confuse being genuinely sorry with being sorry you got caught and it's fucked your life up.
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Where's my freedom from being defined by this shit?
Does anyone understand how I fight, every fucking day, NOT to be defined in my head by what happened to me?
By seeking justice, having the world define me because I was a victim, and then being forced to shut up about it because if I don't, I'm leading a lynch mob or being defamatory.
There is NO RECOURSE for me.
So fuck people, fuck this "What about the RAPIST?" crap.
He made his bed and he can bloody well lie in it.
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You didn't know. I have mentioned it on my LJ a couple of times, but I don't dwell on it. He just stopped one day, and never touched me again in all the times and opportunities he had after that.
I have done a lot of reading up on molesters since, and forgave the guy a long time ago. What he did was wrong, but he was obviously troubled. Whatever stressors drove him to it likely ended, otherwise he probably wouldn't have stopped. I'd have preferred he find another way of dealing with it, but hopefully if he was doing stuff with me, he left other kids alone.
I will leave up my original reply for others to see, if you're okay with that, just so they can see I've been on the receiving end and so don't put their feet in it.
Or I can just do a reply elsewhere if you'd prefer.
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And I will state my usual disclaimer that even though I have Swancon friends, I know nothing about it.
The thing that always frustrates me in discussions about rights or wrongs against people is that so many people assume that there should be some jjustice, that there can be some justice, that justice will be executed.
For whatever reasons, that can't and won't happen in some instances. What if you can't avoid your attacker again? What if you and all your friends, despite your outrage, have to deal with, cooperate with, and get along with this person, regardless of how much you simply don't want to?
People put so much energy into hating or trying to oucast someone, but if it's not achieved, everyone has to move on somehow, including the victum. Yes of course there is being fearful of your attacker and horrified by what happened to you, but hatred is a separate thing that comes as a result of these things, and can be controlled by choice.
I'm speaking from experience.
I get sick of when society turns something into a "the world should be a better place and nobody should be violated" discussion because when these things happen, the individuals involved have to deal with it, somewhere, somehow, regardless of what's wright or wrong or what society reckons should happen.
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I often find great irony in the fact that the people that say things like this (especially in the wider Swancon community) are friends with people who have done equally or greater horrible things. They just haven't been publicly "outed" about it yet. I've also seen people jumped up and down on for saying certain things along the lines of "how can you say that you don't know what it is like to be a victim". Yet, that person was a victim of horrible situations, they just don't vomit all of the internet about it.
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Just because someone doesn't tell the wider community about being the victim of something doesn't mean they "don't understand", they are not actually a victim or that their views are null on the issue.
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Vigilantism isn't productive for any group and it isn't any way to solve a problem. I've seen it happen alot within Fandom, and a few times outside. It's never solved a problem but it's killed alot of good ideas/events/groups and hurt the community as a whole (which really sucks if it's a small community).
I also find the selective memory of fandom (especially Perth fandom) interesting. Personally I find, I'm remembered for certain people I dated and certain forms of employment I've chosen, years after the fact and when people are fully aware my situation has changed. Yes, the person I dated 12 years ago can be an idiot (I'm sure they feel similar about me). Last time I was in Perth I got a "oh so you dated XXXXX". Can't people get the fuck over it- we both are?!
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It's never one mistake!
A mistake is accidentally running over your neighbour's cat because you didn't see it behind your car. A mistake is tripping and spilling red wine on your best friend's white silk dress. A moment, a simple moment of not looking where you're going, not thinking about what your'e doing, and bam! Disaster!
What happened to me wasn't a mistake. It was a series of coldly calculated events that culminated in a moment where I was violated.
I wasn't the only one violated. Other women have come forward to me and said that they, too, were hurt by this man. Out of respect for their healing process, I will not say who they are.
So, that's a lot of mistakes, yeah?
I don't define a person by one mistake. But I WILL define them by repeatedly criminal behaviours that they perpetrate over and over again. Sorry if that bothers your sense of civil liberty.
I'm more concerned about the people that get hurt by predators like him than for the predators and their ickle fucking feelings themselves.
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My discussion with you is over.
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Next let me point out that at the beginning of the post I made it clear this wasn't about any one person. This post has been brewing for a hell of a long time in various forms, since well before what happened to you. It's only due to a discussion over the last weekend that I had the words to sum it up.
I could have waited until the current furore about your situation had died down, but then, there's always another situation that people will find links to with a post like this. And I suspect with your situation I could have posted this in two years and people would still bring up what happened to you.
Thinking of some of the people that this is about -
- The person who organised an event, made some mistakes that inconvenienced a lot of people, and folks are still labelling him as unreliable over a decade later.
- The person done for a single count of theft several years ago, and I still hear people telling newcomers, 'Don't trust such-and-such, they're a thief.'
- The person who told some lies that got out of control a few years back, who has since more than shown a new leaf, still branded a liar.
- And God knows how many Swancons, Natcons, etc. where I've heard such-and-such ran a bad one, never let them near a committee again.
That's just the start. I still hear about these people and more, months and years later.
Apart from when others specifically referenced your attacker in comments and I replied, when did I bring him up in this post, let alone say he made a mistake? In fact I specifically stated he chose to do the wrong thing.
In the comment you replied to I state that if someone can understand their actions are wrong, then they are guilty, and should pay the price. Do I say Matthew Johns made a mistake? No, I state that we should lock him up. Do I say we should let your assaulter off? No, I say that he can come back when his victim says it's okay - fully expecting that to be never.
Your pain is yours and it's real. And I'm sorry that you read this post as being about you, reigniting that pain. But it never was never about you, it was about the kneejerk herd mentality that thrives on hatred and blame, not justice.
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Amen.
And it looks like there might be an example of it elsewehre in this discussion which I find disappointing.
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My week has been so unbelievably shitty, I don't even know where to start. K is in her journal making out like the assault was partly my fault, and I am absolutely paranoid of that becoming the accepted truth of the situation.
It's put me in a hyper-vigilant defensive state. I can't tell you what this whole thing has done to me psychologically. It's come to a point where I'm taking a bit of a sabbatical from this entire issue cause I can't deal with it anymore. Sorry you were blindsided by that defensiveness.
I guess I'm more angry with people equating your post here with what happened to me. It's not a comparable situation.
Anyway, sorry for losing my shit. My deeply horrible bad.
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And I'm sorry for the poor timing, and you being upset, it wasn't intentional.
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If not this, then what?
But you didn't, Danny. You posted it now, and this is what it's about.
You've told a self acknowledged sex offender that he's the victim of a mob, and the victim of the crime that she shouldn't have looked here because she'll just get upset again (even though she shouldn't, because he'll be sorry someday).
You've told the members of a community that got up and said "this is wrong, and the man that did it isn't welcome in our space any more" that they shouldn't have done it.
I think you're wrong. I think you need to read these again in front of a mirror, and look at yourself for while afterwards.
And I think your timing is appalling, and insensitive, and stupid.
I said in the comments to my original post that I didn't think we'd done a good thing, only - as flawed as it was - a necessary one.
But your post here has taken everything good that could have come of this and crapped on it.
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Rape is about power, not sex.
There's never been a fanboy who has been so desperate to get laid they've raped someone just for an orgasm.
Maybe it's a response to powerlessness elsewhere in life, but it's not about a "moment of weakness". It's about exerting power, and feeling powerful.
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However johns would argue that he has paid a price. He's paid the price of losing his job, losing the trust of his family and shaming himself on a national tv. So you could argue that the channel 7 gig is perfectly justified because his paid his penance.
Of course that's bullshit. And the reason for this is because we love our sports people and are willing go give them a million chances. And the problem is that there was never an angry enough 'mob' to out johns and the ten other bastards in their place. All we did was forget.
If the Perth issue is true - then I have no issue at all with the 'mob' making it clear what they think of this person. I'm not advocating violence. I'm advocating awareness. And if we lived in a society where the victim didn't need go through the terror and pain of the assualt than this person would possibly be in prison and there'd be no need for live journals calling this prtdon out.
And the same goes for the douche bag who molested you. No don't cut off his balls. But by fuck don't tolerate him either.
This perth person used their power to do a terrible thing. And while they mea culpaed and all that the fact that the person felt that he could go to swancon because he'd been forgiven meant that the mob response was needed. That said, anyone who advocated any violence against him or his friends is as bad as he is. And probably worse.
Sorry for the rant mate. I know your thoughts on these issues, it's just that whether it's about johns or Perth or some other issue - if the crime involves the physical and psychological pain if others than maybe the mob is needed to make that person understand that they are not wanted
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Re: If not this, then what?
"I guess I'm more angry with people equating your post here with what happened to me. It's not a comparable situation."
Also Danny's specific comment about whether that guy should be allowed to attend Swancon was:
"Do I say we should let your assaulter off? No, I say that he can come back when his victim says it's okay - fully expecting that to be never."